Interview with Carlos Sosa

EMILY MCPHERSON: So, my name is Emily McPherson and it is February 23rd 2021 uh

its 9:02 am and I am conducting a remote interview using Zencastr from my home

in Winnipeg, Manitoba. I'm interviewing uh Carlos Sosa, and could you please

spell the name for the record.

CARLOS SOSA: C-A-R-L-O-S. Last name is Sosa, S-O-S-A.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Perfect. So, who am I? I am a student at the University of

Manitoba and I am completing a practicum at the University of Winnipeg's Oral

History Centre as a part of a Masters of Human Rights. Throughout this practicum

I have listened to and processed the Manitoba League of Persons with

Disabilities oral history interviews. After listening to these interviews, I

have identified that your voice was the driving force behind this project and

would be a valuable contribution to his collection. So what am I asking for? I

would appreciate your 00:01:00allowing me to record an interview with you. The interview

will take approximately one hour, uh, we can always schedule follow up

interviews, uh, if you would like. And if we start the interview and do not wish

to continue please tell me. If I ask a question or questions that you do not

want to answer that is perfectly okay with me and we can just move on from

those. Uh, you can contact me after the interview has concluded if you decide

that you do not want me to use the information that I gathered from you today.

Do you agree to let me record an interview with you?

CARLOS SOSA: Yes.

EMILY MCPHERSON: What will I use for this research? What will I use this

research for? Sorry. Uh, the information that I gather from this interview, uh,

with you will be used in discussions with practicum and academic supervisors and

it may be published in my major research paper which will be submitted to a

committee at the University of Manitoba. I may also give a presentation as a

part of this 00:02:00final research project to that committee and advisor type people at

the University of Manitoba. So, I will be putting the recordings into archives,

so that alongside the rest of the MLPD project so that future generations can

see your perspective and so your valuable knowledge can be, kind of, added

alongside the rest of the interviews. Do you agree let me use this interview in

these ways?

CARLOS SOSA: Yes

EMILY MCPHERSON: Do you object to any of the uses and want to restrict any of

the uses?

CARLOS SOSA: No.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Thank you. Um, will your name be on the research? If you'd like

it to be there, yes. The only time I will not be able to identify you is when

identifying you would result in the identification of someone that does not want

to be identified. Do you want your name to be on the research?

CARLOS SOSA: 00:03:00 Yes.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Great. Uh, and so what will you get back from participating in

my uh project? Um so I am very grateful for your participation and if you would

like I can um give you a recording of the interview. Would you like a copy of

the recording?

CARLOS SOSA: Yes.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Perfect. So, if you have any questions, um after the interview

that I cannot answer you can contact my practicum supervisors, Brett Lougheed,

Director of the University of Winnipeg Oral History Centre at

b.lougheed@uwinnipeg.ca, or the phone number 204-396-6257, or Kimberley Moore at ki.moor@uwinnipeg.ca.

So, as you're well aware a major component of oral history is life history so

today I will ask you just to tell me the story of your life; you can take as

much time 00:04:00as you need and you can include any details that you think are

important. While you are doing this, I will try to stay mostly quiet. But when

you are done I may ask some follow up questions if I feel it is necessary. So

yeah, that's all I have to say today, so with that Carlos, would you please tell

me, the story of your life.

CARLOS SOSA: So, I was born in 1981 on October the 31st. I am a product of

Chilean, Scottish, and some Mennonite heritage through my mother's side; my

mother's father was adopted into a Mennonite family. My birth father, came up

from Chilean 1976 with his mother and father, so that was, um-- They were a 00:05:00product of-- They were political refugees. So, Augusto Pinochet in 1973 --

basically toppled a democratically elected president Salvador Allende, a

socialist president ---- of which my grandmother, my birth father, and his

father were very active in sort of Allende's circles so they are obviously

targeted in 1973. So my birth father was also hired in 1979 by Greg Selinger,

the former premier of Manitoba, to work at the community education development

association in the North end in community development working with families

accessing services in the North 00:06:00 End.

Now, I was born in '81. As I have been told, that it was not long after that

people began to realize that I had a disability, that my development was slower.

I was, when I was younger, identified as "trainable," so that me succeeding in

post-secondary education or any other employment would be-- There were people

that did not feel that I had that chance. I have obviously succeeded in having a

university degree, working as a support worker supporting people with

intellectual disabilities and live independently in the community, and my

involvement in other ways. So, while growing up I remember being in integrated

classrooms, so my mother would fight for me to get supports in the school 00:07:00system. I remember um -- even going on family road trips; I remember going to

Disney World. I remember going on many road trips, whether that be visiting

family relatives in Alberta, going to parts of the States.

And my mother was a nurse. So, she was a nurse at St. Boniface hospital and then

a home care nurse. And so, um, I guess my first experience into activism might

have been when my mother was on strike in 1990; she was on the picket line at

St. Boniface Hospital. So this was the time when Gary Filmon was our Premier of

Manitoba and my mother was on the picket line. So I remember walking the picket

lines. I remember also dropping 00:08:00pamphlets for NDP candidates; I remember being

dragged out to NDP rallies, brought out to that.

Um, but I will also say that when I was younger my mom and my birth father did

divorce when I was quite young. My father, my birth father, did go back to

Chile; his mother remained up here. And my birth father passed away in 2007, and

my grandmother on my birth father's side passed away 2015. My mother started

seeing someone else around '93 or so, and he's been in my life ever since, so

virtually a step-father.

So as I remember growing up, I remember also being brought out to the [Winnipeg]

Folk Festival I remember starting to go there in 1989. I remember also -- being

brought out the 00:09:00protest rallies at the Legislature, going to peace walks, going

to -- peace walks, rallies, um-- But it was that strike in 1990 that really

influenced me. I know that my birth father in the '80s also worked for people

like Eugene Castera, [who] was finance minister at the Province of Manitoba. So

being introduced to very left-wing socialist traditions from day one. And that

has impacted me now. And so, as I remember, I also remember when I was in

elementary school being president of the student council, so I remember doing

that. And I also remember in high school being involved in the human rights

committee in my high school. So I remember -- I remember 00:10:00going to this big

education protest in the 90's I also remember going to a health care protest. So

this advocacy has been there.

So I grew up in Elmwood, an area of Winnipeg -- which is an old area of Winnipeg

---- in fact Tommy Douglas used to live in Elmwood around the 1919 General

Strike, so a very old area. But also a very diverse area, but also an area with

lots of challenges, a lot of socio-economic challenges. So, people living in

poverty, working multiple jobs to survive. So I remember living in an apartment,

then my mother bought a house in the mid-nineties and I lived there for many,

many years.

And so I do remember receiving, through high school receiving tutorial supports

in the resource room, but I also 00:11:00remember being bullied, that people with

disabilities would be targeted, that that uh have to deal with a lot of stigma,

that by going into that resource room you were stigmatized, that when you go to

that resource room it gave like permission to the other students to bully you

and treat you differently. And that's something that still continues today for

other students with disabilities. I remember being told in high school by

teachers that "You shouldn't consider post-secondary," like they were pushing me

to work experiences. And I decided at that point that I was not prepared to deal

with that norm, that I was not prepared to comply with the norm of society. I

think that when people with disabilities -- are placed under a certain category

people have a 00:12:00different perception of you and I think that we as society don't,

don't think about what somebody is capable of doing and what they are doing in

their own communities.

I also remember volunteering at the Manitoba Museum -- in grade nine. I remember

at the end of grade nine and volunteering throughout high school, and learning

things about the Nonsuch, about the Discovery Room stuff, the science, and that

also had an impact on me. I remember going to a conference on child labour when

it was in high school. And also around December 10th, which is the International

Day for Human Rights, going to these conferences on human rights day, every day.

So that was also an aspect there. I also remember going to something called the

racial harmony camp when I was in high school, interacting with different

students from around Winnipeg School 00:13:00Division No. 1, of diverse backgrounds. So

being fairly integrated into different social justice issues while I was going

through. And also attending something called the Youth Activist Retreat, which

was organized by Choices which at the time in the 1990s was a collation for

social justice. And out of Choices came the alternative provincial budgets, and

alternative federal budgets, which are now around today. And I remember in the

90's my mother receiving the Choices newsletter and I remember reading the

newsletter, so that had an impact. And then of course I got involved with the

NDP a little bit.

And then I also remember, again, graduating high school, being pushed to do

these work experiences. And again, I said I'm 00:14:00not going to comply with the norm,

that I'm not going to accept to be fed by the spoon. And I think that, as I will

say this to you, that many people with disabilities seem to be fed by the spoon

when, when I think that as a system we do not encourage independence, and to

explore your own dreams and asportations and to support people in following

their own dreams and aspirations. Um I would say that it was family supports

that helped me, yes, but it was also [that] I was motivated to not accept the

word no.

And so then I got more involved in NDP circles and more activist circles; I

remember going to the Iraq War protests in 2003. I remember doing that. I

remember going to the council of Canadian annual general meeting with Maude

Barlow in 2001 Red Deer, 00:15:00Alberta. I remember going to an NDP event in 2001

called um, the Prairie Western Youth Caucus ---- all the NDP youth from Western

Canadian got together. And I remember being very supportive of the new Politics

Initiative which called for changes in the NDP to make it more reflective of

community, to make it more anti-oppressive, to bring more diverse perspectives

to the table. And meeting people like Judy Rebick and Svend Robinson -- and in

2002 meeting Jack Layton and supporting Jack Layton when he ran for NDP leader;

I remember phoning his house and his, at that time, city council office saying

that "I support you." And then I was asked to organize for Jack Layton three

weeks before he announced, so I organized his first leadership event here in

Manitoba. And I remember driving him 00:16:00around, I remember organizing an event at

the U of W, I remember even organizing media interviews that day in July 2002.

So he had an impact on me. And then I also remember sitting with him in January

of 2003 -- for the majority of the weekend because I was the lone-- Winnipeg at

that time known as "Winnipeg, Transcona" where Bill Blaikie was my MP and he was

running for leader, too. So I was the lone "Winnipeg, Transcona" delegate not to

support Jack Layton. So I sat with the Toronto Danforth table, so that was his

home riding at the time, so I adopted that as my home riding that weekend

because I couldn't sit with "Winnipeg, Transcona" because Bill 00:17:00Blaikie was

there. And at that point in even '02, even before, even until just before he

died we remained in regular contact by private emails. And I still have emails

from him on my email, on my other email address to this day from him. So, so me

and Jack Layton maintained a pretty good, close relationship. I had even, as I

remember, gone to his house once; I remember that in 2002, and him having the

time to give this tour of NDP youth, and talked about his activism and how it

was influenced by issues of homelessness happening right in his community and

that, and felt, as I remember him telling me, feeling guilty that he didn't,

that he could be doing more. So that also influenced me. Um, and then I guess I,

growing up in 00:18:00Elmwood, I also played soccer when I was younger in Kelvin

Community Centre. So those experiences, being exposed to things, and even

getting to know people like Clara Hughes, who was a decorated Olympian, who grew

up just down the street from me. So being exposed to those types of people, and

even as I would say when growing up remember--

So I finally made the decision to go to university in 2002. So I remember taking

the Academic Writing course, and then remember receiving help from something

called Voc Rehab. And me and my counsellor had massive disagreements, she was

pushing me into work experiences, I made the decision to go to school, so we

parted ways. And that was actually a good 00:19:00decision. And then I got back with a

different counsellor and had a better relationship, and then and for my first

degree was paid for. So, I did work throughout the school, I remember working

for Employment and Income Assistance, Manitoba Housing, Manitoba Finance -- and

then with the Companies Office -- and even with the Federal Government. So um,

and then of course in 2006 I-- And I also got involved in the Canadian

Federation of Students in 2004, as their Students with Disabilities

Commissioner, so I was also quite active in student activism and pushing for

affordable tuition, and affordable tuition for everyone because it's not just

for students with disabilities it's for everyone. And post-secondary education

these days is so critical in our environment and many marginalized 00:20:00people face

many barriers to obtaining an education. And then in 2006-2007 I remember going

to another NDP convention. I also remember in '04 being in Toronto on election

day, federal election day, and I remember going to Jack's celebration in '04. I

also remember helping out Olivia Chow back in 2006 on election day and going to

that celebration, too. So definitely my interactions with Jack Layton and his

widow now, Olivia Chow, played a role.

And then in, then in 2006-2007 I got involved in the fight to save Kelvin

Community Centre, which was a community centre in Elmwood that was 00:21:00 declared

surplus; it was torn down. But we packed City Hall and we made a point of it,

and so yes that did, as I remember very clearly. -- And then -- as I remember --

back in 2010 again, there was a proposal to declare the former Kelvin Community

Centre site-- Basically it was on the for sale list, a person wanted to buy it,

and we said no, as residents. So we went to City Committee, we dragged the

process out, the person wanted to buy the land on the condition that it be

rezoned from recreation to commercial, we said no-way. At the time a new city

councilor was elected by the name of Thomas Dean, and he was elected because of

a vote split; this riding of 00:22:00Elmwood East Kildonan City Council ward typically

voted for labour-based candidates, but because one of the candidates pretended

that he was labour or New Democrat he split the vote and allowed Thomas to win

---- and I supported Janine Robinson who was like only 200 votes away from

winning. So we used that as a time to influence the agenda. So we were able to

defeat that proposal, we were able to get the land off the City surplus list,

and we were able, as residents, able to get all governments to invest 750,000

dollars ---- and that included things like a renovated field house, a skate

board park. So what we did was protect that land for future use. We'd like to--

I mean at one point we were calling for a building we didn't get that building

but the big thing is that 00:23:00we saved that property for land.

And then maybe going back, I finished university in 2010. I considered social

work, attempted social work at the U of M, but that didn't work out, so came

back to the U of W, did oral history, finished another degree in UIC ---- Urban

and Inner-City Studies. And then I also got involved in the disability community

in 2010, -- when I joined the board of the Board of the National Education

Association of Disabled Students. Subsequently got involved in the Manitoba

League of Persons with Disabilities, also in 2010. Subsequently also then got

involved in the Council of Canadians with Disabilities in 2012. And then got

involved in positions such as being co-chairperson of a board, 00:24:00 second-vice

chairperson, and secretary treasure, and through that spoke at two federal

parliamentary committees: one on electoral reform and one on Canada Post. I also

remember, I remember going to City Council in 2007 when I spoke in opposition to

the closure of the Kelvin Community Centre. I also remember going to um, even

the provincial legislature and speaking on issues in 2018.

And then I also remember in 2011 -- and remembering the summer of 2011 when it,

when people knew that Jack Layton was not doing well, that his cancer was

terminal when he made the announcement. 00:25:00And I remember seeing him two months

before I remember and seeing the difference, even a month before, seeing a

difference in person and him on TV announcing that he had cancer. And so I knew

that summer and I had it in my mind that if he were to pass away that I'd be at

his service in Toronto. And I made that decision to jump on that flight, to go

to his service, to stand in line at three-thirty in the morning at Roy Thompson

Hall to get a pass, and I did. I was-- I remember being, I think about a hundred

and fiftieth in line, and I was able to get one of those passes. And there were

600 passes in addition to people that were invited. So So I remember being at

that State funeral. And so there weren't a lot of people at that State funeral

but I went to that state funeral because I was part of that 00:26:00dream, his dream of

building a better Canada. I remember -- him achieving that being the leader of

the official opposition ---- which was just cut short ---- and that had an

impact on me, it really did. And he had an impact on me, and Jack had an impact

on me and certainly on my advocacy.

And so then again, I got more involved with the disability community. -- And

then got more involved in 2014 in opposing a move to Canada Post to eliminate

door to door mail delivery, and we were able to stop some of it; they still went

ahead with some of it but we were able to stop some of it. And the importance of

public services to our most vulnerable. And our most vulnerable who live in

poverty rely on these public services such as our libraries, such as our

swimming pools, our community centres. And so that's sort of 00:27:00where I have been

active now. Now I got involved in 2018 in Inclusion Winnipeg, formerly known as

the Association of Community Living ---- more in advocating for people with

intellectual disabilities, and now I am on the board of Inclusion Canada. And

through Inclusion Winnipeg I got involved in an emergency red card ID project,

helping to design trainings for first responders to deal with people who have

communication challenges. And then I also remember in 2017 speaking out in

opposition to -- the proposal to cut bus routes and increase bus fares. So we

were able to stop the bus cuts although the bus fares increased. I also remember

getting involved in the push for -- fighting for 00:28:00-- I remember this, fighting

for low-income bus passes. And we were able to achieve a bit of that as well.

And then I have been more involved right now in issues surrounding the pandemic,

and also as a support worker seeing the barriers that -- some of my support

individuals face. I also, this was a couple years ago, this would have been in

2019, early 2019 as I remember, I remember getting involved in opposing the

introduction of security to the Millennium Library, it was actually bag checks,

that as society if the answer is security to dealing with systemic issues then

we are no further ahead. And we need to be thinking about things such as

recreational 00:29:00options for our most vulnerable which continue to have barriers to

this day. And the pandemic has shown us, many of our most vulnerable live in

poverty. I work with one individual in the downtown area who has no family, no

close family, so he is reliant on income assistance, he was reliant on the

library, he has no access to the internet. And these individuals are often

ignored. And that's what's guiding my advocacy right now is, it's about them, it

is about their story.

And that what also again, subsequently got me to do this, I guess apply for this

internship at CBC. So back in the June of 2020 I saw this internship for people

living with disabilities, so I applied for it thinking I'd have no shot and I

got it, the internship. And I 00:30:00remember being offered it in September of 2020 and

I remember the call, I was with a supported individual and I remember asking if

they could speak to me. And I was in shock to receive it, shock. Because this

was something I had never tried before, never even thought about. And then of

course I did my three months with CBC from September 2020 to December 2020. And

I brought a lot of different stories forward, one on uh.. I did a tape talk so

that was basically where I did, where I interviewed a number of service

providers and self-advocates on the impact of the mental health of people with

disabilities, so that aired on CBC. I also brought different stories, I remember

bringing one story of a parent who was impacted by the Winnipeg School Division

bus 00:31:00strike. And then I also remember interviewing people in the West Broadway

area who also have been impacted by the pandemic and have seen the closure of

drop-in spaces and having nowhere to go, and that's also having an impact on

mental health. And um, and so I've brought those types of stories forward. And

whether I've been on one side or the other side of the mic ---- and now I'm back

more on the advocacy side of the mic ---- many, many people in society have gone

without, even prior to the pandemic. And that influences me, that I've had a lot

more opportunities than they've had ---- that I've been down to Chile, that I've

been down to Peru, that I've been able to go on holidays to Mexico, and Cuba,

and parts of the States. That I realize that I'm somebody of privilege, that is

able to speak out and use my privilege to make a difference in the lives of our

most 00:32:00 vulnerable.

And you are probably going to ask me a question about what my disability is, so

I'll say that right up front: so I do have a learning disability, attention

deficit disorder. I also have a hearing loss in my left ear, so I do have two

hearing aids, one in my left and one in my right ear. And then I also use

adaptive technology so on my computer I use Dragon Naturally Speaking and a

screen reader. So with that, that has influenced my writing, and technology has

impacted me and it's allowed-- It has liberated me to participate in society. I

mean, without that, my writing would not be as good as it is today. And that has

helped me in applying for jobs and it's helped me to succeed in where I am. And

our most vulnerable who do not have access, some of them who do not have access

to the internet, do not have these opportunities. So technology has been

liberating yes, but 00:33:00there are many barriers just to obtaining technology and

some of them don't even have the skill to utilize the technology. And that's

what I see right now is this divide. And it's a divide that the pandemic has

shown. And our most vulnerable simply have been frozen out of society.

And our most vulnerable also have to deal with the constant merry-go-round of

support workers. And that is because of a lack of, a lack of a living wage. And

so I am in this sector right now, in the community-living sector because I

really believe in inclusion and it's not about the money, it's about the

inclusion of our most vulnerable.

And I remember working with this one individual, this individual, again, who has

no family. When I started with him, this individual was very 00:34:00isolated and had not

been exposed to things such as a food security centre, going swimming, going to

Kildonan Park, going to the St. Norbert Farmer's Market. These are things that

he was not really exposed to. And even like things that are five minutes up the

street, like a movie theatre that was five minutes up the street, he didn't even

know it was there. Like I mean even going to the Manitoba Museum for him was a

foreign object; I had a free ticket, he had not been there in years. Like even

the Zoo; I had a free ticket this October, so I took him to the Zoo he'd not

been there in years. So what is a normal trip for us that we all have the

ability to go, for him is just a foreign trip. And so, many people in our

community do not understand that for many people in poverty their isolation has

been around for a long time, 00:35:00and they have not been exposed to community because

of systemic barriers and attitudes that they face on a daily basis. And it's

sad, it's sad and that has had an impact on me as well.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Well, thank you for sharing all that.

CARLOS SOSA: Yep.

EMILY MCPHERSON: So, I just have a few questions for you. So, you mentioned your

initial involvement in the MLPD -- can you talk about what influenced you to

join the MLPD?

CARLOS SOSA: I guess at that point, me being more comfortable with my

disability. I think there's a lot of stigma around people with disabilities,

about even being comfortable with that notion, so I had to be comfortable 00:36:00 with

myself. And I struggled with disability all throughout high school and

elementary, so it was me being comfortable -- in 2010. I think once you become

comfortable with yourself and your abilities, and who you are, then you can be

more proud to be affiliated with this community. And I would say that if I did

not reach that point then I would not be getting involved with the disability community.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Yeah.

CARLOS SOSA: Yeah, because I tried to, when I was younger, tried to um

[unclear], or tried to match what the normal perception of a person was ---- and

nobody is normal but when you have a disability you just struggle with 00:37:00 stigma.

EMILY MCPHERSON: And can you discuss your initial perceptions of the MLPD? As an

organization? As a space?

CARLOS SOSA: Um, I guess at the time, my initial perceptions at the time it was

dealing with a leadership vacuum. So for the eight or nine years prior to me the

organization was dealing with a leadership deficit. So um, I got involved in

2010 so at that point two years prior the council made the decision to, as I

understand ---- I wasn't around at the time ---- to remove their coordinator who

---- and not just the coordinator but apparently at that time they had a

weakness of leadership. And so that weak council from about 2001 to 2008 the

council allowed a coordinator to virtually run the organization into the ground.

And so at that 00:38:00time, MLPD was not really known as an organization. And now, at

that time in [20]10-- In the nineties and in the eighties and even in the

seventies was known as a go-to place, and so that eight years, that seven to

eight years, has had an impact, and has even had an impact on that organization

today. So, it used to bring in three or four hundred thousand dollars a year,

even a hundred and fifty thousand as I remember, through a great obstacle race,

and that council, squandered that. And I mean if I was on that council that

would never have happened, because if you are doing something well and getting

into the community you have to keep those things up. I have always understood

once you withdraw from those things, then it's really tough to get back at the

community engagement game. 00:39:00So, at that time my perceptions was it was an old organization, I guess

perceptions was it was doing something, yes, I tried to help the organization

doing something. But when you are reliant on government funding you are often

muzzled -- you are often muzzled. And I think that right now the organization

had stable funding when I was involved, through the NDP, until 2017. So the NDP

got defeated in 2016, but until 2017. Then the organization got funding for one

more year and then core funding. And then in 2018 it just became very difficult.

So they did get some project funding but that took a fight to get. 00:40:00And I

remember being involved behind the scenes, and telling the organization that you

need to go public about your concerns. And then as I remember, advising the

organization that -- in 2019 during the election, was at that point, they had

submitted another funding proposal they weren't hearing back, they were

struggling, and they finally had to go public. And I finally just said to them,

"You need to go public, here." And going public in my rationale during an

election, which forced the issue on the voter's mind, and there was also a

disability matters debate. So by going public you have also created a question

which the parties had to answer at the debate, and that was a question that was

answered at the debate, where the minister finally agreed to providing 00:41:00 project

funding, not core funding. So that still has an impact on the organization

today. And so it's still struggling. So, I guess what I would say is that the

organization was attempting to do something, I tried to do what I could do, but

the proceeding eight years before me has had an impact on the organization

today. So whatever efforts were made to try and lift the organization back up um

have been negatively impacted by weak leadership. So one thing that I've always

learned is always have a good succession plan, always have that. Always make

sure that you are keeping an eye out for good leaders, because if you don't have

that then your organization can't flounder. And that's where the organization is

at right now, is its floundering ---- and that's due to a lack of 00:42:00resources, due

to the lack of weak leadership void. If council, the board was stronger at that

point and took actions to remove the director or coordinator at that time, I

believe that the organization would be on a better track today.

EMILY MCPHERSON: So this kind of connects to what you were talking about, but I

am just wondering, what advice you would give those who are just starting to

participate in advocacy organizations like the MLPD but not exclusively the

MLPD, such as youth?

CARLOS SOSA: Um, yeah youth period. If I were advising youth my advice would be,

is do not put yourself all over the place. And you are not going to change the

world overnight. It takes time to achieve a change. 00:43:00These things do not happen

overnight. So you are not going to change the world in one day. Also make sure

that you have a good succession plan so that when you get on board, you're

keeping an eye out for your future leaders, you're mentoring leaders to get

involved. But you are also there for the organization. And realize that what

drives you in your personal story. The organization is only relevant-- As strong

as its members as strong as its board. So you, as younger advocates, need to

think about that.

You also need to think about the reality that you are in. We're in a world that

has changed so significantly over the last twenty to thirty 00:44:00years. We have

inequality, we have homelessness, we have a drug overdose crisis, and those were

there, but they're more profound. We have a mental health crisis, we have a

pandemic. And um, I mean these are all major issues, and being relevant in

today's time is so critical. And being able to be relevant, your argument needs

to be relevant to the time that-- We are still talking about barriers, but it's

a different kind of barrier, and that barrier is still about participation. And

so if I talk about it in terms of technology, if I talk about it terms of access

to the library, it's all about their participation in society. And our most

vulnerable still have those barriers, and these barriers were relevant 00:45:00forty to

fifty years ago, they're still relevant now. But your argument is phrased, is

coined, based on the time that you're in, so that you are relevant to today's

issues. -- And the battle is still to get our story on the agenda because as we

see now, with the relaxing of the restrictions, the COVID health restrictions,

many of our most vulnerable are not part of the discussion. And so that's been

where I've been putting my energies, is to get our most vulnerable part of the

discussion, to think about them in terms of the vaccine rollout, to think about

increasing employment and income assistance rates, so that our most vulnerable

are able to purchase things like P.P.E. [personal protective equipment], hand 00:46:00sanitizer, disinfectant. I mean, and eat healthier, because that's simply not an

option for our most vulnerable right now.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Just transitioning kind of toward more of a discussion of your

work on the MLPD Oral History Project and kind of reflecting on that,

specifically, what were your motivations for starting that oral history project?

CARLOS SOSA: At that time -- as I remember in 2013, I was a student of oral

history under the supervision of Nolan Reilly, Director Emeritus of the Oral

History Centre. At that time the organizations in the disability community were

struggling, leaders were passing away, funding was tight. So, when your funding

is tight you want to 00:47:00capture that story on the record so it's preserved for

future generations; it's a reminder that the organizations existed, it's also a

reminder that these issues have been relevant for fifty or sixty years, I mean

um, and these systemic biases. And by preserving your organization's record,

onto the record, or history onto the record, it is just a reminder for

researchers that these issues existed, -- that the organization existed, because

it's a reminder for not to sort of, only historians but also for the general

public. So we must learn from the past in order to inform the future. Especially

with the pandemic today, I mean -- I hope that in the future 00:48:00we will consider

the safety and well-being of people living with disabilities, the safety and

well-being of those that are homeless, the safety and well-being of those new

Canadians who come to Canada and do not know English, the safety and well-being

who live in the northern communities, the safety and well-being of those that

live in the inner-city of Winnipeg. I mean these are people that have been

affected by this pandemic. And we don't seem-- The people that I work with don't

seem to be on the radar.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Do you think that the oral history project has the potential to

increase membership, or to kind of revitalize the MLPD to what it-- Kind of,

like you referred to like what it used to be, like the kind of powerful, or more

powerful organization that it used to be?

CARLOS SOSA: Um potentially. I think it depends 00:49:00on funding, it depends on

whether members want to get involved. And there have been a bit more youth

getting involved now. So, my -- my thinking right now is that it has potential

right now, but um -- we'll see where things go and -- right now, it's a

challenging time. With many organizations it's difficult to get youth involved,

people don't want to get on boards so maybe the new way forward are networks of

people just working together on issues. I mean, I see that in the community all

the time, people come together on an issue and then they fold what they do,

they're successful, and then they get involved in another issue.

So --we're in a different time. We're in a different time -- where I think maybe

the partnership model is more of a 00:50:00use than maybe organization model because

it's difficult to find board members, it really is. And I remember being

employed for a bit with MLPD and for a year having a chairperson who was very

difficult to work with. It got to the point where I had to yell at this person

in 2019, because she wasn't getting it, she finally resigned in 2020 -- finally.

And now we have a decent chairperson right now. So, it really just depends,

right now, on who you have at the table, the skill level of board members.

Because right now boards require a lot more skill than -- than 00:51:00dealing with who

you have.

EMILY MCPHERSON: And if you could, this is a little bit vague, but could you

expand on the relationship you see between oral history and a human right approach?

CARLOS SOSA: Yeah, I think it's-- I think there's a clear relationship to that.

I mean many of our most marginalized people do not have their voices on the

record. And so in terms of human rights approaches, it's important to get their

voices on the record so that they are preserved, and as a result their stories

are preserved and therefore researchers can tell their stories, help them tell

their stories. And that's a part of a human rights approach, is to make sure our

most marginalized individuals have their voices heard on the record, because the

issues of today could be the issues of 00:52:00tomorrow. And that, we use the word

"pandemics," well the pandemic has shown that a lot of people still have a lot

of barriers to deal with, and we need to keep that story on the record so

therefore that our most vulnerable, the stories of our most vulnerable are preserved.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Thank you. Um is there anything else that you'd like to discuss

that we haven't talked about?

CARLOS SOSA: Um, I think I will say that today, in this reality that we are

speaking, it is a changed world. And we are heading into a new normal, and the

new normal must consider our most vulnerable because if we don't, we will be no

further ahead. And that's my concern: that we struggled with inclusion before

the pandemic, and we are certainly struggling with it now. 00:53:00And I am concerned

that we won't really learn the lessons from the pandemic that we are in, the

COVID-19 pandemic, and the lockdown and how that's impacted our most vulnerable.

So it's absolutely critical that as society that we understand history, but we

also learn from history to come up with a way forward where our most vulnerable

are considered.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Do you see any, like, kind of innovative approaches on the

horizon on how to do that better in the post-pandemic era?

CARLOS SOSA: Right now, I really-- I mean I'm sad to say I don't see it right

now. I see a lot of groups and even governments talking about a dignified

income, but we need to see action, people have talked about a dignified income

for years. If it's just going to be a small drop in the bucket then we'll be no

further ahead. 00:54:00If we are going to see cuts in services then we will be no

further ahead. So, we must consider the quality of care, the quality of services

that our most vulnerable receive and not just another government talking point.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Yeah. Yeah, so unless you have anything else to add that's the

majority of my questions. Um and-- yeah.

CARLOS SOSA: Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah I'm good.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Well, thank you for your time.

CARLOS SOSA: Yeah, okay. So I'll let you stop recording, and I'll still be on.

EMILY MCPHERSON: Okay.

[End of Interview]