Interview with Theo Syrette

 SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: My name is Sadie-Phoenix Lavoie, and I am interviewing...

THEO SYRETTE: Theodore Syrette, also known as Teddy. T-H-E-O-D-O-R-E, T-E-D-D-Y-, S-Y-R-E-T-T-E.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: And you've agreed to do this interview?

THEO SYRETTE: Yes, I agree to do this interview.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: And you also agree to be audio recorded?

THEO SYRETTE: Yes, I agree to be audio recorded for this interview.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: So kind of reiterating was I was saying earlier, you can feel free to share. I won't be speaking in the interview, so I'll just ask you questions and then I'll let you go.

THEO SYRETTE: Ok.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: You can answer anything that would like. Feel free to just take as long as you'd like. I'm not going to tell you to stop or anything like that.

THEO SYRETTE: Ok.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: We're here in Beausejour at the Sandy-Saulteaux Cultural 00:01:00Centre for the Two-Spirit gathering of 2018. It is august 4th, Saturday. I think that's what I need to get done [laughs]. All the little things I had to say [laughs]. Little protocols. So, just to start, maybe just share if this is your first time at the Two-Spirit gathering?

THEO SYRETTE: Yeah, this is my first time attending the Two-Spirit international gatherings.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: What brought you to the gathering?

THEO SYRETTE: I came out a long time ago. And when my family first just got the internet, and a computer, one of the first things I looked up online was anything to do with being gay and First Nation, or being gay and native- language being used at the time. And I didn't really find too much, and I wasn't 00:02:00familiar with the term "Two-Spirit" until I was about twenty-three or twenty-four, when an non-indigenous professor at Brock University had asked me ... well we were doing theatre in Garden River First Nation, because my background is in social work and theatre and storytelling. So she asked me "have you ever heard of the term Two-Spirit?" and I said "no" and I go "what is that?", and she's like well " that's when you can be native and gay at the same time, or native and gender diverse". I was like "oh well, we don't have that here, because my community's hella homophobic", so, that wasn't going to fly. But, when she gave me that bit of information- that term, I googled it. Went to grandma google, and I researched what the term "Two-Spirit" was, and one of the items that came up was international gatherings that happened back in the 90', which was ten or fifteen years before I came out. So, it was interesting to hear 00:03:00what that language was, and that there was language or terminology being used to identify indigenous queer/trans/ indigenous people. So, I ended up meeting Albert McLeod a few years ago, at World Pride in Toronto, Ontario. We were friends online on Facebook for a while, and he kept on telling me "you have to come to this gathering, you have to look for funding. There's funding through your band, if you can apply for it to come". And a few weeks ago, we were doing some work on a panel in Toronto, and he's like "hey, did you remember to fill out that form, to fill out the travel bursary for it to come" and I said "no, I didn't. I'll do it right away". He said "well the deadline is on Friday" and I said "I'll do it! I'll do it! Don't worry I'll do it". And then I forgot to do it, and it did it on Sunday [laughs]. I was like "aw I don't think I'm going to go because I waited too long". And then later that night, I got the message saying "you're good to go. We will send you your flights and your travel". It's been a really awesome experience just being here, being with so many 00:04:00two-spirited people that I know, and that I've worked with before over the years. It's just wonderful to see all of them here, and so many other people who's also their first times coming here as well. So that's my long answer for that question [laughs].

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: I'm just going to pause this real quick. [Loud drumming]

THEO SYRETTE: Ok.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: This is just a second clip. Second question, where are you from?

THEO SYRETTE: I am originally from Rankin Reserve of Batchewana First Nation, the Anishinaabe people, right within the city limits of Sault Ste. Marie in Ontario. But currently, I live and work in Takaronto [unknown] Toronto, Ontario.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: How do you identify yourself?

THEO SYRETTE: I identify as a Two-Spirit gender fluid person. And I also 00:05:00identify as queer, when it comes to talking about attraction or sexuality.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: Have you always identified yourself that way?

THEO SYRETTE: Hell no [laughs]. I think, for me, when it comes to my identity with gender and sexuality, it's always been in fluxuation. It's always been very fluid, where I never felt strictly as either or when it came to the binary of genders, of male or female. Growing up, I always said that I felt more male. Or someone would ask if I felt more male or female and I say "well I'm just me, I'm just who I am. Just Teddy" It's how I always felt. I didn't feel like I had to identify. So, I knew that I was gay at a very young age. So, I came out as gay when I was twelve years old to friends, and my sisters. Came out to my parents when I was fifteen and sixteen as just being gay. And then, when I was 00:06:00twenty-five, twenty four or twenty three, I learned about the term "Two-Spirit" and started to do my own research, my own awareness of what that term meant for me, and what it meant for other indigenous people, and other communities. So, it wasn't until probably about twenty-eight or twenty-nine that I started to adopt Two-Spirit as part of my identities, and also gender fluid around the same time too. I'm realizing that I'm not ... I don't identify as trans, but I can fall under that spectrum. But I do identify as gender fluid, so sometimes I feel more like a bro, and sometimes I feel more like a lady.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: Can you tell me a little bit about your community? Also, just your definition of what community is, and stuff like that.

THEO SYRETTE: Oh so, I think for my definition for community would definitely be a series of people or humans coming together and being one, and sharing space with each other, and culture, and music, and dance, and food. And taking care of 00:07:00one another. I think that's for me, what community can look like. I think in my own personal community, I've never always felt that way, because there's a lot of homophobia and transphobia that exists within the city of Sault Ste. Marie, but also my territory. So, it was really hard to find that sense of community elsewhere. And then, on my journey of understanding what it meant to be gay, and what it meant to be native, and the aspects of migration, and people leaving their communities for a sense of opportunity elsewhere. But, when looking at LGBTQ people, and two-spirited folks, where they leave their communities for sense of community, or sense of safer community elsewhere. Which is really hard sometimes, because no one should have to feel like they have to leave their home for a sense of home elsewhere. But it happens a lot, it happens so much. In Toronto, where I live, I think its seventy-five percent, or eighty percent of 00:08:00homeless youth in Toronto identifies being LGBTQ or Two-Spirit. One of the biggest issues I hear in Toronto, is housing. And where folks are talking about "well I don't have access to this program", or" I wish I could see this program" or "I wish I could get access to these spiritual people". And then talking to other folks who are like "I just want a home". So, it's hard when you're trying to do community work, when you're seeing that kind of suffering happening. But, understanding that we each carry our own levels of privilege, and our own powers, and what we can do with those powers and privileges to benefit or to alleviate that hurt for the other members of our community. For me, that's what the sense of community is, is lifting each other up, rising with each other up, 00:09:00so we can all feel empowered, and important. But, that's the best thing about being queer and being LGBTQ, is that we have our communities, but it's a sense of family, our chosen families. Where we choose our aunties, and our uncles, and our cousins, and our siblings, our niblings, to take care of us and for us to take care of them. So, that they can teach us their knowledge to be safe in the other communities that we're a part of within society. But, it's also the beauty of being First Nation and indigenous, that we also have that chosen spirit family as well and who will empower us, and raise us up, with just so that we can feel like we have that purpose, and celebrate with each other in spirit, in community, and ceremony. And it's just lovely being here. [Long pause]. See that 00:10:00community--right there, you don't have to worry about being judged [trying to hold back tears] or discriminated, or hurt. And I just hope that a lot of the people who are sharing those emotions, and sharing how hard it is for them to go back home to their home communities, I just hope they that after they leave here today, that they can see that community, that the community is here. That there is a community for them, that they do have a place, and they do have a purpose, [sniffle] and that they will always have this. This will always be a part of their community, and we will always be a part of their community. So, I really hope that's what a lot of people can take form here [sniffle]. Yeah, but that for me I guess is what community is for me. Yeah.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: That's a good answer. Can you tell me about your journey as a two-spirited person? Think about Two-Spirit, spirituality, social 00:11:00activities, things like that.

THEO SYRETTE: Well growing up, I didn't really have a lot of spiritual influences in my life. I think, in Sault Ste. Marie where I'm from, there's a large Italian population. So for the longest time, not knowing what it meant to be indigenous, not knowing that Rankin was a reservation, I remember I came out to my mom, and I came out to her and I told her I was like "Mom! I'm Italian!" and she's like "what do you mean you're Italian?" I was like well my buddy, my best buddy Shane he's got dark hair, I got dark hair, he's got brown skin, I got brown skin, he eats pasta, I eat pasta. I'm Italian!" and she's like "that's no, that's not how that works, and you're foolish, and you're Ojibway. You're not Italian". I'm like "what does that mean? What does Ojibway mean?" and she's like "well sometimes we smudge, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we go to powwows, and sometimes we don't. And there's a lady named Buffy Ste. Marie, she does some really good music" [laughs] and I'm like "oh ok". But that's all I got. Well "I have more questions" and she's like "well of course you do, but I don't have the answers, so you're going to have to wait to find another person to ask those 00:12:00questions. I don't have those answers". So, I found some of those answers with my Anishinabee morning class in elementary school. So, I had the honour of having an Ojibway language class in my elementary school all through education, all through public school. So, I was able to learn about a little bit about drumming, and the language especially, and cultures, and clan systems. I think that was really important, but at the same time, I was also really conflicted because I knew that I was gay, and I wasn't seeing myself represented within communities. I was seeing a lot of ... even people who are held in high regard, or very respected elders, chief and council members, medicine people, who were very open about their discriminatory ways or viewpoints towards two-spirit LGBTQ people. Not using the term "Two-Spirit", just talking about gay people, everything was gay, if it wasn't part of that norm. Okay "well I think I'm gay too. I think that word is a part of me, I don't know why". Like the term 00:13:00homosexual, the term people call ... "like you're a faggot". "I think I am. I think I kind of am". But, I was really excited to have indigenous friends and non-indigenous friends. And with my First Nations friends, we'd always go to powwow and Rankin in Batchewana. And I always loved it! Because I knew that was a part of me, even though I didn't have a good understanding, I knew that I had a place, and that was my community. Until one day, a friend of mine, who comes from a spiritual traditional family, told me that "well you can go to powwow, but you just can't participate in powwow". I'm like "well what do you mean?" and she's like well "you can't dance, and you can't drum, you can't go to ceremonies, you can't do any of that, because you're gay. And that's what my grandmother said, and that's what my mom said". And me being a very young impressionable child, again, if you tell me the truth, if you tell me something, I'm going to think that's true. Like I'm a very gullible person, because I don't 00:14:00think that anybody would just open and honestly lie, but they do. I do too. But I was so hurt when she said that, because I felt like it was the first time in my life where I felt like I had to make a choice between a part of my identity. And that's hard, because it's just my identity, and I was like "but I was going to choose to be gay instead of being First Nation". Cut up my status card, told other people that I was Italian. I didn't live in Rankin, I lived in the community- the neighborhood right beside Rankin. And, I denounced that part of me for when I was about fifteen until I was about nineteen. I was doing theatre at that time, so I found to negate negativity of bullying and discrimination, I did theatre, because I loved it, and there were so many other queer kids there. They came out later on in life, but I knew them. Like "I can see you, I can see 00:15:00you. My gaydar is going off. I know. I know. You can't hide. I can see ya". And it's funny, because like most of all those guys now are all gay [laughs]. They all came out. But that was like our outlet to be safe, because we weren't sport kids. It was a hockey town, we were not in hockey. They're all musical theater kids, most of them are choir kids, mostly Christian kids. I was the only brown kid in theatre, in musical theatre in Sault Ste. Marie for a very long time. But, it was important for me to be on that stage, so that I could not have to be Teddy. I didn't have to worry about being bullied all the time. I wasn't Teddy being bullied, I was villager number two, working in an art community, doing a job, and getting applause, and getting that affirmation. But I wasn't receiving at home or in my reserve. But my first acting gig when I was nineteen, was working Garden River doing theatre, and it was an all indigenous cast, crew, production team, except for a couple of settler allies. But, most of them were 00:16:00gay, most of them were two-spirit, working with the producer and the director. Alanis King, who is also a two-spirited person, told me "that you can be all that. What you're experiencing is lateral violence, that discrimination that happens within cultures and groups, and that's wrong. And a lot of us do, because of colonization of what happened, those teaching of homophobia and transphobia that settlers ended up bringing here, and enforcing upon indigenous people- to negate to walk away from their two-spirited teachings and their terminologies. But it's being reclaimed, and you're a part of that, whether you know that or not". And I wasn't ready to accept that because I was still Italian [laughs]. I was just not ready to do that, this was just a gig. I was like "I'm going to do this summer gig, it'll be the longest summer of my life, but afterwards I'll have a paycheck and I'll be good", because it's not too many 00:17:00times you get a paid gig in Sault Ste. Marie for doing acting. But, that opened up so many other doors where I could be more accepting of myself. And, I was learning more about indigenous ways, and knowledge keepers, and storytelling, and teachings through theatre and art; something that I was passionate about, something that brought me comfort. So, I was able to learn about myself in a comfortable setting doing theatre and art, which eventually would lead to do finding more two-spirited teachings, and more two-spirted people within the arts realm. So what was the question? Jeez, I'm going on a tangent. So, that was basically how I just came to terms with who I was as an indigenous person, as a queer person, and now as a two-spirited person. And with my work now, with that understanding of my experience, my background is in social work and social justice. So, I travel to different communities, and schools, and universities, 00:18:00and agencies, and institutions, talking about my story and how they can build capacity, and more awareness, not just for queer people and trans people, and not just for indigenous people, but for two-spirited/queer/trans/indigenous people.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: Can you tell me about your family, and you can also even define family, but in terms of like raised you, or and things like that, and chosen family.

THEO SYRETTE: I was raised by both my parents. My parents would have been married for about thirty-three years. Would have been thirty-three years this November. My father unfortunately passed away in April. But they raised me. We lived on a reserve. My dad got funding to ... we got approved for housing so they could either choose for the band to build the house, and you got whatever house that they gave you, and look like every other house on that block, or you 00:19:00got the opportunity and the materials to build your own house. And he had a little bit of background in architecture, and he wasn't a good architecture, and he wasn't a good designer. But he built our house. And so, my sister and my mom still live with the same house that we were raised in. my dad was always working, so I was very angry with him for a long time as a child, because I was like "how come my dad is not around?". He was providing for us, but I never connected that meaning. We lived across a street from a bingo hall, so a lot of times my mom, for her sense of coping, would go to the bingo. And so again, that essence of parenting, I was like "I need parents! I need guidance! I have questions! I need boundaries! I need rules! I need you to ground me! I need you to get mad and put me in the corner". Because I was looking for that kind of attention, because I was seeing how other families were, like other non-indigenous families, and how they acted. And I was like "my family is so 00:20:00different from those families. How come my family isn't the same family on the t.v. [television]? Or the same family down the street? Or the next neighborhood over? Why are we so fragmented and different?" But, other people who raised me too, was my grandmother, so she would always pick me up, and take me out to different places, and teach me different things. She was in touch with Creator and her spirit, but she was also devoted Anglican person as well. So, she prayed in lodge and also in churches. And so for her, she had that balance. That's how she balanced and coped with it. She also did social justice, and she was a criminal justice worker for indigenous people in Sault Ste. Marie and Thunder Bay, and one of the founding members of the Indian Friendship Centre in Sault Ste. Marie. She instilled in me that sense of volunteering, that sense of being a helper, that you need to give, and you need to support your community no 00:21:00matter what that support can look like, no matter what you got you have to give it back. It's not about what you want, it's about what the community needs. And if you have more, then you have to give back to your community, so the rest of the community is balanced and healthy. She taught me a lot of that. My auntie Rose, Rosanna, she's also a two-spirited person too, and knew that I was a little gay child. So she spent a lot of time with me, and we spent a lot of time reading, and going to movies together. So at a very young age, she's like "okay, he's a very bright child. I think he can have different teachings that are a little bit more adult compared to others teachings that other youth were receiving". Because again, I would never feel comfortable around little children, or people around my age. I was like "I kind of feel a little bit older. I think I'm just going to stand by the teacher, or the TA because I feel like" ... I always had a sense ... like even someone would say "oh you're only as young as you feel", you're only as old as you feel" well "I feel like I'm 00:22:00seventy-two [laughs]. "I feel kind of old". But that's just how I always felt. So, she realized that "okay, he's got a little bit more maturity than other children". So she took me to go see "Shindlers List" [movie] at a very young age, and I had no idea what the Holocaust was, or World War II, or genocide. And she would always ask me questions later, and she's like "so how was that?" and I said "oh it was really sad auntie. I can't believe people would do that to other people, could you imagine if that happened?" and she's like "it did", I'm like "oh...oh okay" and it just messed me up right there when I realized just how human beings can be so monstrous to other people for their differences. She also realized that I was gay, that I was Two-Spirit as well at a young age. So she took me to go see "The Birdcage" [movie] with Robin Williams and Nathan Lane. And afterwards, she said "okay, how did you like the movie" and I said "oh auntie, those boys were dressed up as girls were so pretty! And they were 00:23:00dancing! And the music was good! And everyone is happy! And it was funny!" and she's like "ya, he's gay" [laughs]. That's all she needed to know. So she helped me support my way, and to talk [unclear] that my journey was going to be very different that other people's journeys, and that my journey might be a little bit more difficult than other people's journeys, and that I would need to ask for help, and I would may need to ask for help to a lot of people in a lot of different ways. But to do good, and give back to the community as much as I can, because if you do good, then the Creator will see that, and will give you what you need, when you need it. So, I was raised by my parents, my grandmother, and my auntie Rosanne played a really big role in raising me as well.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: Where do you feel most safe, and why?

THEO SYRETTE: In bed [laughs]. Lied up and napping, watching Netflix by myself, having McDonalds [laughs]. Sometimes is when I feel really safe, because sometimes if I'm presenting as more feminine, if I'm wearing skirts, and makeup, and jewelry, I don't always feel that comfortable, even though I feel like that is my true self. I don't like to shave. I hate shaving. I always fret that I'm going to nick myself for good and then that'll be it. So, I sometimes don't shave my face when I'm wearing my femme gear, as I like to call it. But, I feel a lot of times safe when I'm wearing makeup, and jewelry, and a gown, and high heels, even though high heels are really uncomfortable. But I feel good. I feel like me. I feel truth. I feel my truth when I'm in that sense. It has been a really hard time to feel that sense of safety, and self affirmation, and 00:25:00self-respect, because after my father passed, he was a big queer leader, cheerleader for me, and big ally. So, after when I lost him, I put away my skirts, and my jewelry, and gave away a couple of things. I think that there's a couple of folks who thought that maybe was considering taking my next journey into the spirit world, because sometimes that's what people do, they start giving away gifts, and things that are really important to them. So, I had a lot of really good friends say "but why are you giving me this? Are you okay?" and I'm like "I don't feel okay right now, like not right now. Like I'm not thinking about that, but right now, I just can't wear all of this. I'm just not ready to do it". And so, even when coming here, I was like "do I pack my heels? Do I pack my makeup? Do I pack my femme gear?" and I didn't, because I was still not ready 00:26:00for it. I packed my skirt, I packed my long skirt [sniffle] that a friend of mine made for me last year, and I wore it here to my first sweat, and it was the first time I ever did a sweat lodge [holding back tears] because I never felt that comfort to do that type of ceremony, to start doing that spirit work [sniffle] with just cisgendered, heterosexual, indigenous people. I was not ready for it. But, when I got here, I was ready for it. It feels really good just being here in circles, being around this fire, being in that stupid thunderstorm last night trying to save the fire [laughs] with a bunch of other folks who've only been here their first time too. Were like "okay we got to do this. We have to somehow do it. I'll go grab the shovel". We ran down the sweat lodge, trying not to get my phone wet, had the flash light on, looking for the shovel, looking for a tarp, knowing that a bunch of people are trying to make 00:27:00sure the fire doesn't go out. This is probably one -- [holding back tears] one of the safest place I've ever been to. And it's great. And I know that for me, to continue feeling safe and supported, that I need to do more work. That this is just the beginning. I think it's the beginning for a lot of people here to continue doing that good work in a good way, no matter what that work is. Whether it's through academia, or community work, or social justice, or activism, or protesting, or art, or comedy, or whatever that is, that we're going to continue doing this because it is so important that we need to do this every day to make sure that our spaces our safe, not just for us, but for the generations that come, and then the generations after that [sniffle].

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: Is there anything that I haven't asked that you may want to share?

THEO SYRETTE: I just think there's the one thing that I want to share, is one of the first teachings I got from an elder from Garden River; Willard Pine. He would do teachings, he would come into Ojibway class, and I would never listen to him [laughs]. I was still Italian. I didn't really care a lot. But, I remember he would look at me, and he gave me one teaching in one day. He just looked at me, straight at me and he said "the Creator doesn't make any junk. The Creator doesn't make any junk". And then he walked away, [laughs] and that was it. No explanation, just looked at me and said "the Creator doesn't make any junk". And I was like "I don't know what that means, I don't know what he's talking about. Why did he say that to me?" and I kind of got really offended, like "what does he mean? Did he just call me junk? [laughs]. Because I feel like sometimes other people would treat me like I'm junk. And it took me a long, 00:29:00long, long time --almost seventeen, eighteen years, maybe even longer, for me to understand what that meant. And that the Creator doesn't make any junk, and that each of us, every person, everybody, every living thing, is connected and that we're sacred. And that we all have gifts, and Creator gives us those gifts before we come into this world. And that we have a purpose. And we have value. And it's important to remind everybody that every person we run into that we have a purpose. He's still around. I'm really thankful that he's still around, because he was able to take my workshop. He sat with me in my circle, as an adult, as a two-spirit gender/queer person. And, I mentioned that teaching, and he made me cry all through the circle. Everything he said I was like "oh no! He's going to say something and he's going to make me cry". And at the very end 00:30:00of the circle, when we were talking about pronouns, and trans folks, he's like "I still get confused. I haven't that understanding, I don't have that education. But I know that I have to do that kind of work". And then at the end of that conversation and that circle, he's like "it's all about respect, and love, and compassion, and kindness [holding back tears] and I forgot about that." And so, he thanked me for reminding him about that, and even though we might not understand somebody else's truth, it's still their truth. And as helpers, we have to teach ourselves to be better helpers, and meet those people, meet them where they're at, and use the language that they're using. And ask questions if we don't know the answers. And offer ceremonies to our people. And not making them feel awkward where they have to make a choice, because when you close those doors, those doors might not open up for a very long time. They 00:31:00might need us to be there, to show them that kindness and understanding, even though we might not fully understand them. We still need to do better, so we can all live in that good way. So I think that the final thing I would like to say is to remember that teaching; that the Creator doesn't make any junk.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: That's a good teaching, I like that. That's all the questions I have right now. I didn't ask you on topic of pronouns, what are your preferred gender pronouns?

THEO SYRETTE: My pronouns are they/them, but I'm open to he/him, she/her as well. So I have a sister who calls me her sister, and I'm an auntie to her little one. And my other sister, I'm her brother, and I'm an uncle to her three boys. So it's all good.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: Well thank you so much. Meegwetch.

THEO SYRETTE: No problem Sadie, thank you. Sorry for making you cry.

SADIE-PHOENIX LAVOIE: No, no, no its okay! I'm just going to stop the recording now.

THEO SYRETTE: Yeah.